Stupid arguments for reservations-5
Wow.. another fool jumps in the fray (Prafool). First of all, if you read his article, its a pretty long one, unnecessary complicated. Typical of seculo-commie writers. Beating around the bush, using 2 paragraphs to say what can be said in just 2 sentences. Obviously, they bring in ten other problems, cry about them, and somehow make you believe that reservations are the ultimate cure. Of course, those ten other problems have got nothing to do with reservations.
Read this article http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/may/30bidwai.htm (and in the comments section, tell me frankly if you read the whole article. I wonder how anyone can read such convoluted language).
[Quote]At least three groups of people have played a role in sustaining it: upper caste-dominated professional guilds like the Indian Medical Association; captains of industry and owners of private colleges, who stridently oppose any extension of Dalit-Adivasi (Scheduled Castes-Scheduled Tribes) reservations; and Bhartiya Janata Party politicians.[Unquote]
Haah.. unbelievable. Now we guys are also surprised at BJP's silence and hence implicit support to reservations. Captains of industry.. !? The industry is driven by merit and the motive to earn profit. The industry does not discriminate against anyone - if you are good enough, join us. We dont care about your caste. Many industries do have backward caste members. Now what discrimination are you trying to remove here. Forcing half the employees of a company to belong to particular castes is sure shot disaster. In fact, it will create more resentment and anger, and breakdown of organizational team. Hence they are opposed to quotas. Owners of private colleges? Many are politicians themselves. Private colleges are okay with reservations as long as their costs are being met. Why would they bother with caste. The IMA?? Of course, they would support the doctors, their members, regardless of caste. Remember there are OBCs who are against this whole quota thing.
[Quote]Weighty evidence for this comes both from the participation in the agitation by executives of Information Technology companies[Unquote]
These people are participating for reasons much different from what you presume, Mr Pra-fool Bidwai. We are for equality and merit, we dont care about caste, we dont want deserving candidates to lose. And yes, we are against quotas in private sector. We have no public sector jobs, now we will not be left with any private sector jobs too.
[Quote]Then, two members decided to quit, adding more grist to the anti-affirmative action mill. They couldn't have been unaware that their action would raise the pitch of the crusade against affirmative action in favour of disadvantaged groups per se.[Unquote]
Why is he repeating the words "affirmative action" repeatedly. Prafool may keep yelling about it, but reservations and affirmative action are very much different things. Calling reservations as affirmative action again and again will not change the truth.
[Quote]The bulk of the agitating students are children of the new middle class which burgeoned under the inequality-enhancing, skewed and dualistic economic policies launched in 1991. [Unquote]
Which world is this fool living in? Quality of life has improved after 1991, in general. Before 1990s I had never seen a 21 inch flat color TV in a slum. Did those 45 years of socialism improve anything for anyone, rich, middleclass or poor alike? Prafool seems to be thinking on these lines - I cannot climb the ladder, but I will pull you down if you do. He seems to have a problem with the "new middle class". Hey Mr Prafool, the middle class has worked hard for it, its not given to them on a platter.
[Quote]The 'merit' argument is bogus, in fact disingenuous, especially in a society based on inheritance of private property, and privilege related to birth, which largely determine one's social position.[Unquote]
Well, my parents did not get much in inheritance. What about that. Prafool here assumes that *all* upper caste people receive huge properties in inheritance. What about backwards who are rich ?? What kind of logic is that - Your parents are rich, so you wont get a seat in medicine or engineering, your suitability or merit be damned.
Ok, my parents did make sacrifices to give me a good education. They spent money on their kids education instead of spending it elsewhere. Whats wrong with that. If I was not so well-off, I would not crib about my rich neighbour's kid getting a headstart over me, but try to make the most out of available resources. And not waste it on drinking and gambling. I have seen slums in Mumbai (when I was working there) where people had larger colour TVs, refrigerators and costlier mobile phones than what I had at home ?!? But they will not bother about their kids' education. By handing them reservations, you just will kill the incentive for them to do so.
Of course, they have a right to spend the money whatever way they want to. They have the right to indulge in luxuries of life. Definitely. Nobody will stop them. But then, I dont accept the blame for their mismanagement, their non-planning for their kids education. Did we go and tell them to waste money on drinking desi daru and gambling? Dont blame us or our middle-class parents for giving more priority to studies and career.
[Quote]Merit makes sense only when it measures the distance between the starting point and the end point.[Unquote]
Ok, then how do you measure it. On the basis of caste ?? What if tomorrow, my community is included in the backward caste list. Will that change the truth, that I basically dont need reservation. Is the difference in the starting points so much that a merit student at 90% stands equivalent to 60% quota student. No, I dont think so.
By the way, I recall that in Gujarat during the 90s, if you are from the backwards, you get +5% added to your 12th standard score (used for medical and engineering admissions). Say you scored 72% and in the rankings, you are given 77% and brought into a single general list. Anyway, what about merit in other fields like media, entertainment, sports, etc. Why just engineering and medical are being targetted.
[Quote]Many of them don't see the unprecedented prosperity and rising incomes of a small minority -- namely, themselves -- as the result of certain larger economic processes and forces, such as higher rates of savings, the Indian state's elitist macroeconomic and taxation policies, or globalisation, which has given rise to new technologies and divisions of labour, thus creating new opportunities in IT and related services.[Unquote]
Now frankly, I had to read this twice to make sure I understand what this twisted fool is trying to say. Do you mean to say that the doctors protesting against quota (or their parents) did not have to work hard. The reason for their success is economic policies, not their own merits or talents. They got it easy, is it?
Ok Commie Pra-fool, whats your problem with rising incomes. We are earning it with hard work and slogging away for it. Not stealing it from you or your corrupt party.
[Quote]Rather, they attribute it to their own 'talent', 'merit' and individual initiative.[Unquote]
Yes, Mr Pra-fool, it is their talent and merit. Its just that you dont see it with your jaundiced eyes. You will not be able to understand what it takes. And this is regardless of caste. If a cricketer scores a century, and may or may not be an OBC, it is his talent and merit. (Or is it the government policy of making easier pitches hehehe) . If a student (regardless of caste) clears engineering/medical exams, it is his talent, hardwork and merit. (Or is it govt policy of making simple and easy exam papers, he he).
[Quote]A single 'objective test' is a disputable measure. One's score in it often depends upon familiarity with the type of questions asked, time management and speed, rather than comprehension.[Unquote]
But that is for everyone, isnt it. Do the test papers have questions that backwards cannot answer. Is anyone stopping a backward from getting familiar with the test pattern and previous papers. What a tard, this Prafool.
[Quote]The fundamental point is that a person born in a highly educated savarna family will have a totally different universe of knowledge, social contacts and elite acceptability[Unquote]
So?? Whats wrong with this. If the backwards start taking education and hardwork more seriously, it would be the same for them. I, for one, do share information with anyone, regardless of caste. If an OBC/SC/ST wanted some info from me, I would do so. Should I be cribbing if I fail to get into IIT, because I did not prepare for it or none of my cousins cleared it, and so they could not give me tips. Haah.. childish arguments from Prafool. I hope he retires soon.
Read this article http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/may/30bidwai.htm (and in the comments section, tell me frankly if you read the whole article. I wonder how anyone can read such convoluted language).
[Quote]At least three groups of people have played a role in sustaining it: upper caste-dominated professional guilds like the Indian Medical Association; captains of industry and owners of private colleges, who stridently oppose any extension of Dalit-Adivasi (Scheduled Castes-Scheduled Tribes) reservations; and Bhartiya Janata Party politicians.[Unquote]
Haah.. unbelievable. Now we guys are also surprised at BJP's silence and hence implicit support to reservations. Captains of industry.. !? The industry is driven by merit and the motive to earn profit. The industry does not discriminate against anyone - if you are good enough, join us. We dont care about your caste. Many industries do have backward caste members. Now what discrimination are you trying to remove here. Forcing half the employees of a company to belong to particular castes is sure shot disaster. In fact, it will create more resentment and anger, and breakdown of organizational team. Hence they are opposed to quotas. Owners of private colleges? Many are politicians themselves. Private colleges are okay with reservations as long as their costs are being met. Why would they bother with caste. The IMA?? Of course, they would support the doctors, their members, regardless of caste. Remember there are OBCs who are against this whole quota thing.
[Quote]Weighty evidence for this comes both from the participation in the agitation by executives of Information Technology companies[Unquote]
These people are participating for reasons much different from what you presume, Mr Pra-fool Bidwai. We are for equality and merit, we dont care about caste, we dont want deserving candidates to lose. And yes, we are against quotas in private sector. We have no public sector jobs, now we will not be left with any private sector jobs too.
[Quote]Then, two members decided to quit, adding more grist to the anti-affirmative action mill. They couldn't have been unaware that their action would raise the pitch of the crusade against affirmative action in favour of disadvantaged groups per se.[Unquote]
Why is he repeating the words "affirmative action" repeatedly. Prafool may keep yelling about it, but reservations and affirmative action are very much different things. Calling reservations as affirmative action again and again will not change the truth.
[Quote]The bulk of the agitating students are children of the new middle class which burgeoned under the inequality-enhancing, skewed and dualistic economic policies launched in 1991. [Unquote]
Which world is this fool living in? Quality of life has improved after 1991, in general. Before 1990s I had never seen a 21 inch flat color TV in a slum. Did those 45 years of socialism improve anything for anyone, rich, middleclass or poor alike? Prafool seems to be thinking on these lines - I cannot climb the ladder, but I will pull you down if you do. He seems to have a problem with the "new middle class". Hey Mr Prafool, the middle class has worked hard for it, its not given to them on a platter.
[Quote]The 'merit' argument is bogus, in fact disingenuous, especially in a society based on inheritance of private property, and privilege related to birth, which largely determine one's social position.[Unquote]
Well, my parents did not get much in inheritance. What about that. Prafool here assumes that *all* upper caste people receive huge properties in inheritance. What about backwards who are rich ?? What kind of logic is that - Your parents are rich, so you wont get a seat in medicine or engineering, your suitability or merit be damned.
Ok, my parents did make sacrifices to give me a good education. They spent money on their kids education instead of spending it elsewhere. Whats wrong with that. If I was not so well-off, I would not crib about my rich neighbour's kid getting a headstart over me, but try to make the most out of available resources. And not waste it on drinking and gambling. I have seen slums in Mumbai (when I was working there) where people had larger colour TVs, refrigerators and costlier mobile phones than what I had at home ?!? But they will not bother about their kids' education. By handing them reservations, you just will kill the incentive for them to do so.
Of course, they have a right to spend the money whatever way they want to. They have the right to indulge in luxuries of life. Definitely. Nobody will stop them. But then, I dont accept the blame for their mismanagement, their non-planning for their kids education. Did we go and tell them to waste money on drinking desi daru and gambling? Dont blame us or our middle-class parents for giving more priority to studies and career.
[Quote]Merit makes sense only when it measures the distance between the starting point and the end point.[Unquote]
Ok, then how do you measure it. On the basis of caste ?? What if tomorrow, my community is included in the backward caste list. Will that change the truth, that I basically dont need reservation. Is the difference in the starting points so much that a merit student at 90% stands equivalent to 60% quota student. No, I dont think so.
By the way, I recall that in Gujarat during the 90s, if you are from the backwards, you get +5% added to your 12th standard score (used for medical and engineering admissions). Say you scored 72% and in the rankings, you are given 77% and brought into a single general list. Anyway, what about merit in other fields like media, entertainment, sports, etc. Why just engineering and medical are being targetted.
[Quote]Many of them don't see the unprecedented prosperity and rising incomes of a small minority -- namely, themselves -- as the result of certain larger economic processes and forces, such as higher rates of savings, the Indian state's elitist macroeconomic and taxation policies, or globalisation, which has given rise to new technologies and divisions of labour, thus creating new opportunities in IT and related services.[Unquote]
Now frankly, I had to read this twice to make sure I understand what this twisted fool is trying to say. Do you mean to say that the doctors protesting against quota (or their parents) did not have to work hard. The reason for their success is economic policies, not their own merits or talents. They got it easy, is it?
Ok Commie Pra-fool, whats your problem with rising incomes. We are earning it with hard work and slogging away for it. Not stealing it from you or your corrupt party.
[Quote]Rather, they attribute it to their own 'talent', 'merit' and individual initiative.[Unquote]
Yes, Mr Pra-fool, it is their talent and merit. Its just that you dont see it with your jaundiced eyes. You will not be able to understand what it takes. And this is regardless of caste. If a cricketer scores a century, and may or may not be an OBC, it is his talent and merit. (Or is it the government policy of making easier pitches hehehe) . If a student (regardless of caste) clears engineering/medical exams, it is his talent, hardwork and merit. (Or is it govt policy of making simple and easy exam papers, he he).
[Quote]A single 'objective test' is a disputable measure. One's score in it often depends upon familiarity with the type of questions asked, time management and speed, rather than comprehension.[Unquote]
But that is for everyone, isnt it. Do the test papers have questions that backwards cannot answer. Is anyone stopping a backward from getting familiar with the test pattern and previous papers. What a tard, this Prafool.
[Quote]The fundamental point is that a person born in a highly educated savarna family will have a totally different universe of knowledge, social contacts and elite acceptability[Unquote]
So?? Whats wrong with this. If the backwards start taking education and hardwork more seriously, it would be the same for them. I, for one, do share information with anyone, regardless of caste. If an OBC/SC/ST wanted some info from me, I would do so. Should I be cribbing if I fail to get into IIT, because I did not prepare for it or none of my cousins cleared it, and so they could not give me tips. Haah.. childish arguments from Prafool. I hope he retires soon.
posted by In The Shadows at
5/31/2006 04:09:00 AM
2 Comments:
This guy is too hardcore a communist, no hope for redemption. Apparently he thinks looking out for ones self-interest as being misguided. He attacks private property. I think Stalin would have a job for him.
"Arjun Singh's limited proposal to introduce 27 per cent reservation"
See shadows, the 50% is apparently limited proposal.
>> See shadows, the 50% is apparently limited proposal.
LOL.. haha... cannot comment at such .. really i m lost for words. If I say something, it will be repeating what others have already said. :)
Anyway, I think it was either Dilip dsouza or prafoool who called software engineers as "cybercoolies" slaving for foreigners and said some derogatory things about software industry, and techies. LOL..
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